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Fooey on Grovers!!!
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Author:  WalterK [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:54 am ]
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I just had to post this critique about Grover open back tuners...
I purchased a set of Open Back GOLD Grovers for my slotted head OOO-12 fret. After only one week the gear on the B string started to slip, snap and skips a notch and could not tune it up. After calling Grover they replaced it and only after they received the defective part. Time...time...goes on.

Yesterday I decided to put some new strings on and the same thing happened again to the Low "E" and the "A" string.
I called StewMac and they said they would replace the bad gears and they wanted the defective two gears.
They told me that there is a problem with the GOLD plated sets and didn't know why they have been having problems. They also acknowledged that Grover is also aware of the problem but they have failed to make changes and would not tell StewMac what is causing the problems.
I have had several Martins with the Nickel open back sets and never had a problem.
So...I would appreciate any comments and recommendations.
I don't believe I can afford Waverleys at this time but they would be on the top of my list for replacements.

Thanks a bunch!!

WalterK
Author:  RussellR [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:31 am ]
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HI Walter

I have had the same experience with the nickel vs Gold Grovers, the nickel are great the gold have problems, I think Arvey has had the same problem. Get shirty with grover and tell them you want them to send you a whole new set, and you have wated quite enough time messing around posting things back to them. then you should have some spares. Alternately the Gotoh open backs are worth a look if you don't want to run to waverleys.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:45 am ]
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I've had a similar problem with the nickel plated ones (I assume you're talking about the relatively new version of Sta-tites, the ones that are identical to those that Santa Cruz is using now). I've had to replace one so far that blew out like you described. I have a couple more sets of these on my shelf, but after these, I'm not going to buy any more. In case you're not aware, Gotoh makes some Sta-tite copies, too, and I haven't heard any complaints about them mechanically.
Author:  Josh H [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:08 am ]
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If you can't aford the Waverly machines I would give the Gotoh ones a try. I personally have not used the open back machines but have heard good things about them.

Josh
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Had the problem with one gold grover (the new 18-1 open backs). Stew
Mac at first asked to have it back before shipping, but when I pointed out
that that isn't the kind of customer service that their reputation relies on,
they sent a new gear right away; I mailed the old one to them in the
meanwhile.

I can see no reason why this should be limited to gold, but I haven't used
any of the nickel.

I can tell them where the problem is: it's sloppy fit of the worm shaft in its
plastic bushings. Specifically, I think the sizing of the shaft where it goes
through the bushing on the side away from the button is not being
controlled. I'm not an engineer, but you just have to look at it to see why
it jumps the gears.

The Stew Mac tech guy said to me that you can't expect Waverly quality
for one-quarter the price. He's right. I disagree with a builder whose
initials are Tim McKnight who thinks they are comparable.
Author:  John How [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:54 am ]
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I've had a nickel plated one strip & slip. I will use either Gotoh or Waverly in the future when I need an openback style. For closed style tuners I use some Gotoh model either the 510's or the Schaller look alike.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:06 am ]
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It's not limited to the gold sets, I've had these problems with nickel tuners too. I had 4 sets, and in one set 5 out of 6 tuners were defective! No problems getting replacements from Stewmac tho and they didn't ask for the defective ones back. Still, I'm not buying any more sets of these, I'm getting Waverlys instead even if they cost 4 times more.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:38 am ]
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My guess is they want them back so they can figure out what the problem is.


Author:  arvey [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:11 am ]
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Last night I had another gold tunner go on me (it was on my personal guitar just 1 hour befor a gig). I've used 12 nickle ones so far (the 18:1) and haven't had a single nickle set with a problem yet but So far 3 out of 4 Gold sets have had problems. Each time I have just called stew mac and they have replaced them but this just won't do. I am using up the grovers I have left (only one gold set) and then will switch to waverlys. The funny thing is I used to use the old Grover (14:1?) and never had a problem with them even though they don't look nearly as nice or feel as tight as the new ones.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:43 pm ]
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Yeah... I was thinking to myself... "and these are 'cheaper' than Waverly's?"

Author:  CarltonM [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:30 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] The Stew Mac tech guy said to me that you can't expect Waverly quality
for one-quarter the price. [/QUOTE]

That remains the LAMEST excuse for incompetence, yet it keeps showing up as a defense for faulty goods! If something is sold as a tuning gear, it should work as such--for YEARS. Look, the Grover name used to stand for high quality gears, so if you buy a set of Grovers it's reasonable to expect that they'll work as intended, no matter what the price. If you buy one of Martin's plywood guitars, with a synthetic fingerboard and bridge, you don't expect it to match a D-45 in quality; but you DO expect it to be playable and sound like a guitar. It should be no different with tuning gears.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think he meant that you can't expect gears that work for 1/4 the
Waverly price. You don't expect the same quality for 1/4 the price, unless
you are thinking magically. On the other hand, if he meant you should
expect to be returning some that don't work at all, you're right--that is
kinda lame. Howard Klepper38682.1559143519
Author:  paul harrell [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:10 pm ]
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I've had two of the nickle grovers for slot head go bad. Stew Mac replaced them quickly but I'll never buy another set. With the bad ones you can see the shaft move as you are getting up to pitch-the shaft actually moves tword the outside of the peg head, which causes the gears to unmesh enough to skip a tooth and round it over. I've since gone to the Gotoh open backs which are a lot more solid.

                  Paul Harrrell
Author:  Matt Gage [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:12 pm ]
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I have been all around on this one, and I too had problems with the 18:1 Grovers, they stripped out right from the get go.

I then tried the 14:1 which looked cheaper but at least they did`nt strip out...so far that is.

Gotoho`s are of decent quality, but they have to small bushings at the bottom of their shaft which are of slightly wider diameter than the shaft itself. This forces you have to ream out a little of the back of the peg head so the tuner will seat properly...yuck.

I am a Waverly guy all the way, their bushings match their reamer perfectly with a press fit, and they never fail. to me the extra $ is worth the peace of mind.

Matt
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not crazy about the vintage tuner look for all guitar styles, but I like the fact that they are light weight and small. I have ordered some hand made open back tuners from Nicolo Alessi for my next instrument, it's the steel string version if this tuner.

Alessi tuning machines

I want to see what they are like, they are more expensive than Waverlys, but they could be an alternative for those who want something different. Hopefully they work as good as they look!
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:44 am ]
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[QUOTE=Arnt] I'm not crazy about the vintage tuner look for all guitar styles, but I like the fact that they are light weight and small. I have ordered some hand made open back tuners from Nicolo Alessi for my next instrument, it's the steel string version if this tuner.

Alessi tuning machines

I want to see what they are like, they are more expensive than Waverlys, but they could be an alternative for those who want something different. Hopefully they work as good as they look! [/QUOTE]

I have used Alessi classical tuners and they are of excellent quality. I can recommend them.

Does anyone happen to know of Grover's QC problems extend to their classical tuners? I've been thinking seriously about ordering a few sets of their Hauser-style tuners from International Violin. They're cheaper than the Schallers I normally buy, but if I'll have to deal with QC problems and unhappy customers as a result, I'd just rather not install them to begin with.

Best,

Michael
Author:  sfbrown [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:28 am ]
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[QUOTE=RussellR] HI Walter

I have had the same experience with the nickel vs Gold Grovers, the nickel are great the gold have problems, I think Arvey has had the same problem. Get shirty with grover and tell them you want them to send you a whole new set, and you have wated quite enough time messing around posting things back to them. then you should have some spares. Alternately the Gotoh open backs are worth a look if you don't want to run to waverleys.[/QUOTE]

Russel,

Shirty? Can you translate for we Americans? Is it some contraction of the old "stuffed shirt?"

Thanks, Steve
Author:  RussellR [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Steve Sorry.

What I meant was get a bit cross with them, I have only had a problem with one set of the gold and on that occasion grover sent me a whole new set without asking for a return.

Maybe because of the distance involved.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:01 am ]
Post subject: 
If you want a light weight closed tuner, Sperzel Solid Pro tuners (my
standard for solid headstocks) weigh one gram apiece more than a Waverly.
All aluminum housing and buttons save weight over the cast housings and
buttons of other brands. Never had a bad one; performance is comparable
to Schaller, etc. Lots of choices re buttons and colors, and a big discount if
you buy 10 sets at a time direct from the factory in OEM packaging.Howard Klepper38682.5852314815
Author:  guitarjtb [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I've had the same problem with the nickel open back Grover. Have not used any gold ones. I don't plan to use the Grovers anymore. The Gotohs function much better than the Grover or the Schaller open backs. I can't speak for the closed back sets on any of these brands

For me, the Gotohs or the Waverlies are the only options I've found. I have never had a problem with either.
Author:  Matt Gage [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:54 am ]
Post subject: 
yeah, I tried the Shallers as well. They are of good quality, but I had a heck of a time finding a proper reamer or drill bit to match their bushings.

I think they require a 13/32 bit or something crazy like that, I never did find a suitable size.

Matt
Author:  RussellR [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:26 pm ]
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Hi Matt

I have a feeling it is a metric 10mm.
Author:  arvey [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:48 pm ]
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Howard, Do you have contact info for Sperzel tuners?
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